Transcript – Podcast 68

[00:00:00] Kris: Welcome Welcome to podcast number 68. You’re listening to Design and Prosper. Today we’re talking all about pretty design. Is it enough for a design just to be pretty? Let’s talk about it.

Welcome everybody.

[00:01:33] Donna: Hello. Hello. I love this topic. Love it. It’s one of my favorite conversations to have with student designers, junior designers, senior designers. It comes up all the time. It’s a good one.

[00:01:46] Kris: Yes. We, we used to talk about it a lot with our students.

Mm-hmm.

Because Donna and I were both university lecturers and it was just something that we hammered home the time.

[00:01:56] Donna: It was a constant conversation, and I think our students used to get, you know, they’d groan, oh, here they go again. Yeah. We’ve got to actually rationalize what we’re doing here, which gives you a bit of a segue into what we’re going to be talking about today.

But yes, is pretty enough is such an important conversation for designers to have.

[00:02:17] Kris: Yes. So before we get into the nuts and bolts of the episode, we wanted to let you know that we have a new Facebook group for this podcast. So specifically for the Design and Prosper podcast, it’s called The Design and Prosper Podcast Community.

So search for it on Facebook, or we’ll have the link in the show notes, but it’s there to support you and all our beautiful community who are listening to this podcast. To ask questions in the community, get feedback from other like-minded designers, have conversations.

[00:02:49] Donna: Yeah, absolutely. It’s all about connecting with other like-minded designers and having these conversations when they pop up in your business and you know, collaborating on ideas and ways to actually unpack this kind of information with your clients and just with other designers as well, just to have the conversation because often once you air something, it’s really exciting, it shines a light on it and then gives you some real purpose about discussing that particular topic with, you know, clients, other designers, peers, all the people.

[00:03:23] Kris: Yeah. And some other business groups, not necessarily just design business groups, but other groups, the focus isn’t necessarily on elevation and getting to a point where you can charge premium prices and all that sort of thing. So we want to elevate in this group. We want you to feel like you’re with like-minded people. You can share something that’s happened with a client and it’s going to feel like you have just shared the burden of it. And you’re not going to have people who are charging $20 for a logo in this group. That’s the plan anyway.

[00:03:55] Donna: That’s the plan. That’s the plan, and if you are out there charging $20 for a logo, then maybe you need to be inspired and to be speaking to people who are charging premium prices. And you know, you might be scratching your head thinking, how on earth do you charge premium prices? Well, that is a conversation that can be had in this group, but that’s where we are wanting to go. Elevate, elevate, elevate.

[00:04:21] Kris: Yes. So let’s get into it.

Is it okay to design something that is beautiful or pretty? Just for beauty’s sake, so, insert whatever word you like here; pretty, on trend, gorgeous, elegant. Whichever word is, is suitable.

[00:04:41] Donna: Yes. Often the word used is, on trend.

[00:04:45] Kris: Mm-hmm.

[00:04:46] Donna: People will go, oh, that particular beautiful flourish is on trend. Or that particular illustration style is on trend. So, on trend is substituted for pretty a lot of the time.

When we have conversations with other designers, we’ve noticed that, that’s one of the ones that is a key word that people use for something that is just beautiful, pretty, an accent, you know, that kind of thing.

[00:05:10] Kris: So of, of course, it’s okay to create something that’s on trend or pretty, or beautiful or whatever word…

[00:05:16] Donna: All the words.

[00:05:16] Kris: All the words, again. But there should always, there should always be a reason why, and it’s your job as a designer to articulate the why.

[00:05:28] Donna: Yes. Rationale please designers. what we ask for all the time, down to a a little line, down to a little dot. We look at a design and we ask, okay, that’s that’s interesting. Why is that there? And if you can’t articulate the why, then we ask, well, what is it doing there?

[00:05:50] Kris: Yeah. If you want to provide any kind of substance as a designer, you really need to communicate the why behind all of the design choices you make. We know that aesthetics or see, okay, this is why it’s aesthetics and not ‘aestetic’.

We, Donna and I, always say aesthetic and we know that a lot of people in the world say ‘aestetic’, and that’s fine. But for the purposes of this podcast, we’re going to say aesthetic. Otherwise we’re going to get tied up every time.

[00:06:21] Donna: We’ll get tongue tied every time, know what we mean.

[00:06:25] Kris: what I was saying was, aesthetics are important. They play a crucial role in the whole design solution. You know, of course they do. But a design that is visually appealing and has that beautiful aesthetic appeal is naturally going to communicate better. It’s going to be more desirable and all the things it’s going to engage better with the audience.

[00:06:47] Donna: Yeah, absolutely. But even from a purely aesthetic perspective, you can ask yourself, why? Always. There is always room for why, in fact, why is a mandatory part of your process. So it’s our job as designers to go below the surface.

To truly understand every single decision that we make when we are designing. Every application, like we were saying, from a dot or a line that’s used to separate a graphic. Why is it there? The white space, white space is design space. Why is it there? The typography you’ve used, the color you’ve used, all the things we need you to ask. Why? We need to balance aesthetics with meaning, purpose, and function. All those important attributes. So this is what makes a really successful design and a really successful designer, to be able to articulate all those things.

[00:07:43] Kris: Yeah, because if you’re missing one of those things, then it’s not a complete holistic solution. So if just got aesthetics and you don’t have function, or you just have function and, and you don’t have aesthetics, that’s not really going to work either. You need that beautiful balance with

[00:07:58] Donna: Yeah

[00:07:58] Kris: It’s gotta be meaningful. and purposeful and it’s gotta answer the brief.

[00:08:02] Donna: Yeah, absolutely. So ask yourself, what is the key purpose of the design?

So what is it? There is always an underlying message or idea that designers need to pinpoint. It’s your job to pinpoint that’s why we are being paid. It’s our job to communicate that then, to our client in order to sell the concept that we’re trying to present. To get them to believe in and embrace the design that we are putting forward.

[00:08:31] Kris: Yeah. So we need to ask lots of questions, loads and loads of questions. So we’ve got some questions to ask. So for example, is the prettiness or the on trend aspect of this design, is it a match to the goals and personality of my client?

[00:08:48] Donna: Mm-hmm. . Perfect question. Does it meet the main objective of the brief? Very important question.

[00:08:55] Kris: So always going to come back to the brief.

[00:08:56] Donna: Mm-hmm.

[00:08:58] Kris: How does it align to the business? So is it in alignment? You know, visually it needs to be in alignment, but also the undercurrent of the messaging needs to be in alignment as well.

[00:09:09] Donna: Mm-hmm.

Mm. Will this appeal to their target audience? Which will be covered in the brief. Again, all of these questions really come back to the brief, don’t But does it appeal to their target audience? Are you being objective about this design solution? It’s one thing to have something on trend, but is it going to suit their target audience?

[00:09:29] Kris: Yeah.

Does it function well? Is the user experience good? Because that’s important as well. Yes, because it can be really beautiful, but is it functional?

Like can you actually read it? For example, have you chosen a font that’s on trend or just for beauty’s sake and it’s actually eroding the communication that’s required for the project.

[00:09:50] Donna: Yes.

Very good question to ask. So we want you to consider all of the specific design elements when you’re looking at these questions. Everything from the color, the typography, the iconography. Is it representing a specific value? Is it appropriate? Ask those questions when looking at all of the aesthetic elements the design.

[00:10:10] Kris: Yes. Ask many, many questions, ask why? And then another why question, and another why question. Keep on asking.

So it’s our belief that if you don’t have an opinion on an element within your design solution, then it really has no place within your solution.

[00:10:26] Donna: We’re firm on that. Really firm on that. Yeah, absolutely.

So the same goes with research. Don’t populate a Pinterest board, for example, with all the pretty things only, like all the things that you like. It’s really that sort of subjective quagmire. You get in there and you just go, oh, I like that and I like that, and I like that. Ask yourself, why is it there?

Write a note. Be really specific about what it is. So what is it about? Why are you including it? Does it belong there? Does it align to the client in some way? Does it align to the brief? Really, all important, back to the brief. So which particular aspect to the brief is it aligned to?

Kris and I have Pinterest boards literally coming out of our ears, and within each one there’ll be a whole myriad of things, but it might be one teeny tiny aspect on one pin that relates to the brief. So we’ll need to articulate that. So we’ll say it’s that particular color, top left corner, or we’ll say it’s typography only. Definitely not layout. Whatever. Whatever the thing is that’s speaking to and informing our research, that’s what we really distill it down to and we make notes on that and there comes the discernment. That’s where it begins. When you start to have that ability to articulate the why, even in your research, you’re starting to actually sow the seeds for the language you are going to be using when you actually start to present this design in front of a client.

[00:11:55] Kris: Mm-hmm.

So it could be, this is a really beautiful minimalist layout. But why? Is because it suits the brief, because it needs to be elevated and it needs to be elegant and sophisticated, so it’s things like that, you’re starting to un unpeel the layers because this client wants to be perceived at a higher level, whatever it is, like it’ll be in the brief. You’ll see it in the brief.

So just starting to question in your own mind, just like Don said, you will be able to articulate it later. Those words will just flow right out when you’re about the concept later with your client.

[00:12:28] Donna: Love that. Absolutely. Now, if pretty meets the goals and the objectives, there is absolutely room for pretty. Or on trend. Go for it.

[00:12:39] Kris: Yeah. Fabulous.

[00:12:39] Donna: Yeah, it’s fabulous. But there does need to be a goal and an objective and a very clear outline in the brief for you to do that.

[00:12:48] Kris: Yeah. And can you get away with just pure aesthetic based design? Can you get away with it? Well, possibly.

[00:12:58] Donna: Yes, possibly. Love this answer; possibly?

[00:13:01] Kris: It’s very certain isn’t it? Well, there’s nothing stopping you from creating pretty, aesthetic, based designs, right? You could do that all day long and people may still seek you out and want to use your services, but solutions like this, they’re not objectively and strategically created.

[00:13:22] Donna: mm-hmm.

[00:13:22] Kris: So therefore they’re not likely to produce the results and growth for the client.

[00:13:28] Donna: Yeah.

Well, the same results that a creatively and strategically, discerning direction would. So we’ve really always gotta distill it back to that. So, just pretty, without that level of depth. May fall flat. That’s the reality.

[00:13:47] Kris: Because they won’t get results. The client won’t get results.

[00:13:51] Donna: Mm.

[00:13:51] Kris: It’s not going to help them grow their business or meet their objectives. And if you have a lack of results, you’re going to have a lack of repeat work.

[00:13:59] Donna: Exactly. Yeah. So important.

[00:14:02] Kris: And that’s one of the underpinning factors. Essential factor we have discovered is essential for having a successful, long-term sustainable design business.

[00:14:12] Donna: Yeah, 100%. It’s that repeat business.

[00:14:15] Kris: Mm-hmm.

[00:14:16] Donna: You need to be trusted. You want your clients to become an advocate. You want them to come back and come back and come and you want them to refer you, and if they can trust you and if your work helps them to achieve their results, then, you’ll have that time and time again.

[00:14:32] Kris: Yeah. It’s also about if you want to be seen as credible and a trusted partner in like a trusted design professional, then you need to create more than just surface level aesthetic solutions.

[00:14:47] Donna: Mm-hmm, absolutely.

[00:14:49] Kris: It’s also essential for charging premium prices if you want to charge more for your work. It’s gotta have some depth to it.

[00:14:55] Donna: It’s gotta mean more. Yeah. It’s gotta mean so much more than just because you like it or just because it’s on trend. Yeah. Or we’re doing it this way because that competitor over there is doing it, so let’s do that as well. It’s got to have so much more substance and then you can absolutely charge more.

[00:15:12] Kris: Even like is doing it because that other design is doing it and they’ve got, you know, a shit ton of followers, so they must be doing something right. So let’s copy that style. So there is a bit of that too, like finding your own unique pathway in as well, and not just following what’s on Pinterest.

And we did actually cover this in an episode, all about design trends. So if you want to check that out, it’s 31, episode 31. Should you be designing with trends? We’ll link that as well. You know, it can be really fun to design with trends. Absolutely, but use them carefully. You’d be, again, asking those same questions. Why? Always ask why, and don’t be swept up into the shiny things because trends, they come up so fast and then they cycle out, and then they’re gone, and then all of a sudden you’ve created something that two years later, is dated or isn’t working for the client. And that’s not sustainable.

[00:16:10] Donna: No, it’s not, and what if a part of the client’s brief was longevity? You’ve really shot them in the foot by designing with a trend. So we get excited by trends. We love it when we’re at the fore of a trend, when we’ve helped to shape a trend.

That’s really, really exciting when you sort of do something and then you notice, Ooo, other people are doing it now, that’s super exciting. But again, it always. Will absolutely always objectively come back to the brief. And when it does, it’s, it’s this really exciting, you know, woohoo. The client wanted this on trend solution and it works and it’s appropriate and it’s going to help grow their business.

All of the things have to be in alignment. You really do have to be very strict and clear about the questions that you ask. So there’s lots of things to consider. Some other points to be mindful of are; is the perceived prettiness or beauty or aesthetics, are they subjective? Are you being subjective about this or are you being objective?

Again? We want you to keep coming back to the brief. Is it in alignment?

[00:17:11] Kris: Because we want to always be creating timeless classic work that’s really important. I know it’s important to Don and it’s always been important to me Mm-hmm.

And when you infuse a bit of a trend in that, that’s, that’s a beautiful thing. That’s really fun, like we said.

[00:17:25] Donna: Yeah.

[00:17:25] Kris: But I want to be able to look back on my work and still be proud of it 10 years later, 20 years later, and know that it was beautifully designed then. And it still is. It, it stands the test of time. And there’s only a few times when I look back in my portfolio and go, oh gosh, oh gosh, I really got swept up in a trend then. And that has not lasted. And it’s not a good feeling.

[00:17:46] Donna: No, no, that’s right. Now having said that, your niche might be trend based. So it might be super important for you.

To be an aesthetic based business where it’s all about what’s on trend. So it’s important for you to date, it’s important for the shelf life of whatever you’re designing to, to, to not be around in a couple years. Good few. Thank goodness. I’m onto the next really hot thing and that’s okay. As long as you’re being objective about it.

As long as it meets and matches the briefing, you are in complete alignment with it. But yep, Kris and I we’re 100% on the same page there. I love classic timeless design and so, a key word that Kris used a minute ago was that infusing a little bit of the trend with the foundations of a classic timeless design.

That’s one way that we’ve managed to get around it over our careers of having a little tiny bit of the trend pop in when appropriate. But it’s anchored by this timeless approach to maybe type setting or the color palette or whatever. There’ll be something that carries it through into longevity.

So, you know, it’s, it’s all about being objective. Bottom line. We’re going to harp on about that, points for how many times I say objective. Being objective throughout this, uh, podcast

[00:19:04] Kris: We’ll do a drinking game. Okay.

So the other. Yeah, because, well, I was just looking through some old stuff. I was doing a big clean out on the weekend boxes and boxes of stuff has been turfed and tossed and some of my older designs were in there.

And one of the really embarrassing ones that my, my made my face blush was a New Year’s Eve thing, right? And so that’s fine. It was like a New Year’s Eve once off event. It was perfect for its time. It didn’t need to have longevity, and just a little hint as to what made me embarrassed.

It was. You know, that trend that hand brushed letter modern calligraphy.

[00:19:47] Donna: Yeah, yeah,

[00:19:48] Kris: Yeah. But it actually was on the cusp of that trend, I’ve gotta say. But now looking at it, you just go, oh, no, no, no, no,

[00:19:53] Donna: but I love how you also said, because it was a New Year’s Eve piece.

Highly appropriate, so tick, tick, tick. It’s just, it’s not something you’re going to pop in the, in the time capsule and go, Woohoo. Or maybe it is!

[00:20:09] Kris: You do put it in the time

[00:20:10] Donna: capsule. Yeah. That’s all, that’s right.

[00:20:12] Kris: That was circa 2008 or whatever it was. You know?

[00:20:15] Donna: Very indicative of, yeah right. Okay. So some other points to be mindful of, is the perceived prettiness beauty or aesthetics, are you being subjective with those? So ask yourself, am I being subjective? Is it on trend? You know, all the questions, all the words we’ve been saying, or am I being subjective? So just check in. Just check in with yourself because you can get carried away with trends. They’re, they’re appealing for a reason. The word trend by definition is there to lure us.

Mm-hmm. So yeah, just make sure that you’re not being subjective.

[00:20:50] Kris: Yes. Trends are coming through faster and thicker now too, because of the algorithms. Mm-hmm.

[00:20:55] Donna: Yeah. And we’ll be flooded. We’re bombarded and we’re like, is it a sign? Should I go this way?

[00:21:01] Kris: That’s all I see in my feed.

[00:21:03] Donna: Oh my gosh. So just be mindful of signs people, because you know, we’ve got algorithms who are chasing our tail.

Yeah. Yeah. So, and prettiness without purpose or intention may not be inclusive or universal. Again, we keep coming back to that purpose, intention, objectivity.

[00:21:21] Kris: Yeah. Yeah, because it’s, it is subjective, right? So what is considered to be beautiful or pretty by one person, or even one culture or a community group, may not be considered to be beautiful or pretty, or on trend in another. So it’s not really universal or inclusive at all.

[00:21:42] Donna: That’s another thing to consider. Understand your client’s market. Yeah. Where are they going? Are they global? Be mindful of that. And that goes right down to color palette, all the way down. Distill it down through every visual aspect of the brief.

You’ve really gotta be considered when it comes to having an international client. Kris said it before, trends are cy, I can’t say this word. Cyclic.

‘Ciclic’?

Cyclic?

[00:22:05] Kris: I don’t know. Is it cyclic or ‘ciclic’?

[00:22:07] Donna: I don’t know.

[00:22:07] Kris: Dear, dear podcast listeners, beautiful designers, can you please tell us if it’s cyclic or ‘ciclic’?

[00:22:15] Donna: they come and go.

[00:22:16] Kris: They come in a cycle, Don.

[00:22:17] Donna: They come in a cycle and they go again. That’s what we’re saying. So be mindful of that.

[00:22:22] Kris: Yeah. So what was thought to be pretty, 10 years ago is not, as I just used in that example. Or on trend. We just keep using the word pretty because we like the word pretty, but it’s like, you know what, you know what we mean. You may yeah, like what I said before you may just end up creating something that looks super dated. Yeah, and we’ve gotta consider the brief. Does it need longevity? Is it a brand that needs to last 10 to 15 years at least.

[00:22:46] Donna: Mm-hmm. We have that question in our ultimate briefing system. It’s one of the key questions. What is the life expectancy of this brand?

[00:22:54] Kris: The lifespan.

[00:22:55] Donna: Because there are a lot of business who’ll say, hey, I only want a year. It needs to be on trend. There’ll be other businesses that say, we are here for the long run. We want to be here for the next 30 years. We want to get trust, we want to dig deep.

We want to have roots here with this brand. So it’s a question to ask which allows you, which ensures you, are discerning when it comes to your solutions.

[00:23:18] Kris: It’s also really a lot harder to come up with unique conceptual solutions. When you rely on aesthetics alone.

[00:23:27] Donna: Mm.

[00:23:27] Kris: You’re really limiting yourself.

[00:23:29] Donna: Mm-hmm. Absolutely.

[00:23:30] Kris: The power and possibility of the design.

[00:23:32] Donna: Yeah, absolutely. And just again, by definition, a trend is a trend, so it’s everywhere. So you are not going to be unique. You’re not creating a unique solution if you’re using on trend. Yeah. So that’s something to be very mindful of.

[00:23:46] Kris: Yeah, and I think as designers, we can fall into the trap too of having our favorite things, our favorite fonts, our favorite go-tos, our favorite color palettes. There’s, they can be starting points, so that’s really important to keep in mind as well. Am I going to this font too often? Is it really appropriate? It’s so beautiful, but really, should I be mixing it up a bit more?

[00:24:08] Donna: Yeah. So we’ve talked a lot about the benefits to clients about explaining, why? The benefit of being able to articulate the why. Why does that thing exist in my design? But it will also benefit you once you get into the habit of explaining the why behind your design solutions.

And like we said, it starts with research. We are really distilling it down in that very early infancy of a project, you will train your brain to being a strategic thinker, and that’s what we get paid for. We are paid for the strategy, the creative conceptual strategy that we bring to the table for our clients.

[00:24:48] Kris: Yeah, it’s going to be more clever, more conceptual, more aligned, and you will naturally get stronger and stronger at this, better and better with every project.

[00:24:58] Donna: And with every aspect considered throughout your design process, you’ll be able to confidently sell the concept to your client. That’s so important.

[00:25:07] Donna: We swap out, sell a lot with serve. So remember, if you are creating an objective, discerning, beautifully crafted, strategically clever design solution, you are serving your clients.

[00:25:20] Kris: Yeah, for sure. Yeah. But we also need to sell it, right? We need to be able to get it across the line with confidence, and it needs to be undeniable. So what happens when you have got everything articulated in your mind and then put it into a written rationale and then give that to the client?

It is watertight. It stands with absolute integrity. And there’ll be no question about whether the solution you have created is correct or not, or right or not. So we want you to have that unshakable confidence going into that presentation.

[00:25:50] Donna: Yeah.

[00:25:54] Kris: So just as a side note, we did mention rationales just then. If you’re not doing written rationales, we really, really highly recommend you start doing them because it just ensures everybody’s on the same page. It just takes the subjectivity away because people go off and talk to other people after you’ve presented and you know what have you. And it shows evidence. Of this amazing thought process that you’ve gone through and how considered it is and how the solution is so aligned to the brief, and that’s what’s really important. We believe it’s so important, yeah. That we have a whole module dedicated to this in the academy.

[00:26:30] Donna: Yeah, it’s a powerful, powerful module because if you are not doing rationales, you might be one of those designers out there scratching your head. When you present a beautiful concept to a client and they love it, they’re showing all the right signs, saying all the right things, giving you all the right feedback. Then they go away and two days later. No. We want you to change this, change that, and I’m not feeling it. Whatever the case may be.

And you’re like, what happened between presentation and now two days later you are not on board with it? We firmly believe, Kris and I are absolutely adamant about this. If you don’t leave a little piece of yourself behind with that design that you’ve created, whether it’s a brand, whether it’s a website, whether it’s a social media graphic.

If you don’t leave a little bit of yourself behind in the form of a rationale, speaking objectively to the goals and the outcomes that you are hoping to achieve with that, then the client will go off, present it willy nilly, to their brains trust, who could be their neighbor, their parents. They’re friends, you know, people who are not in the industry who maybe don’t understand what you’ve been trying to do.

Odds are, they haven’t even read the brief. So they will be being purely subjective. And we want to avoid that at all costs. So leaving a rationale behind with your client ensures that you do not have your design exposed to subjectivity. They will be forced to be objective, which is what we want. Mm.

[00:28:04] Kris: We’ve got a real strategy that we use for written rationales and even the presentation rationales, so that it’s just step by step, you can go through it. We have so many amazing resources in that module, we want it to be easy. We don’t want it to be like this really laborious, tiresome task. But it’s important to get it right.

[00:28:21] Donna: Yeah, and when you get it right, you get it right and we are firm believers of the single concept rule. Where you only have to go into that deep discerning dive just the one time and present that to the client and they buy in full body yes. Because you have sold it in such a spectacularly beautiful way.

[00:28:43] Kris: Yeah, we can’t even fathom honestly how people convincingly sell multiple concepts at once

[00:28:52] Donna: Mm-hmm on a single timeline with a single budget because we can all come up with multiple concepts for one design brief. Absolutely. There’s a myriad of ways you can take it, but when you are being paid for a brand, you’ve only got that amount of time to discerningly dive deep for one concept.

That is the solution that you have come up with. If you want to go again and again and again, we need to get another timeline. We need to get another budget and we can come up with multiple solutions. But single timeline, single budget, equals single solution.

[00:29:29] Kris: Yeah. And if you are doing multiples, and you think that all of those multiple concepts are aligned to the brief and all have those elements, it’s hard for us to imagine that it’s not diluted.

[00:29:42] Donna: Yeah, that’s it.

[00:29:43] Kris: The process is compromised because you’re already thinking, I’ve gotta have three and I’m going to take a little bit of that and that and that, going to make sure I have three strongish ones

[00:29:50] Donna: Mm-hmm.

[00:29:51] Kris: Anyway, this is a topic for another podcast. Oh, but guess what? We’ve got two. We’ve got two past podcast episodes dedicated to this because we can talk about this to the cows come home. Check out episode 49. How to Convince Clients one Concept is Enough. And also episode eight is one of our earlier episodes. How to present one concept with confidence.

[00:30:13] Donna: They’re a great listen, so check them out. Just adding onto what Kris said about it being diluted, if you think about it, if you take on a design brief and you say, okay, great, I’ll give you three, three concepts for that and then what? Like we were saying, we can’t fathom how you could do the level of process that we do in terms of the deep dive discernment approach that we have three times over. It would absolutely be compromised or you wouldn’t be making money. There’d be no profit because you are spending way too long to provide three completely crafted completely equal solutions. So think about there’s always one that is the winner in your mind, and the other two are there for what lip service I’ve done more.

Here’s more because it’s like we think that that’s what the client wants to know, that we’ve done lots and lots for them. We’re here to educate you and we are here for you to educate your clients. That one concept is enough, you know?

[00:31:18] Kris: Yeah. And what we mean by diluted as well is if from the get-go, you know that you want to present three concepts to a client and you’ve got a set budget and timeline, you’re never really going to go fully deep into any of those, and you’re going to present these three kind of wishy wash diluted good enough, I guess, done, kind of solutions. But like we were talking about before, if you’re always just presenting those kind of superficial solutions to clients, then you’re never going to elevate your business. You’re never going to get those repeat clients and the higher price points and the respect from clients who, who will see you as a professional within the industry, a highly respected professional.

[00:32:03] Donna: Exactly. Love that. That’s what we are after. We are wanting you to be perceived as that high end professional. So yeah, allow your processes to reflect that.

[00:32:13] Kris: Yeah. There’s no reason why you can’t. Yeah. Don’t even start to think, oh, maybe I’m not as, Maybe I’m not up there like Kris and Don, you know, they were university lecturers and all, all the rest of it. We taught designers of all different natural skill levels to get very high results. Yeah, you can do it with a process.

Yeah, we teach that in the academy as well. Yeah. Most of the academy is about business systems, but we do have two modules that go into the conceptual development process and how you can systemize it, because honestly, anybody can get really high end discerning, beautiful solutions. Yep. Not just surface pretty.

[00:32:54] Donna: Every single time and if there’s room for pretty, it’s in there. Yeah. Yeah. But every single time, because we use the right processes.

[00:33:01] Kris: Gosh we went on a, a tangent with this episode. We went right around and come back again to, to the topic which was, is pretty enough? So you know what we think about this now, so start thinking about it. Sow the seeds for next time you’re doing a project, really consider why have I put that in, into my Pinterest inspiration?

[00:33:22] Donna: Yeah. Yeah. And what aspect, and do you know when you’re doing that Pinterest research and you see something and it’s like, I only like that bit so I won’t put it in. We don’t leave any stone unturned because we can articulate the why, because we are not afraid to take notes. We’re not afraid to scribble on things and write all over things and, and digitally pop notes in and things like that, so that way you can really, really dive deep and really get into the nitty gritty of one tiny aspect of research and one tiny aspect of inspiration because we are used to having to explain ourselves.

It’s a part of our process to explain ourselves. So once you get used to that, it’s just, it’s second nature. It’ll, you’ll be explaining the why always. And you’ll be looking at other designs differently as well. Yeah. , you’ll be like, I wonder why they did that. Ah, they would’ve done that because of that and that.

Oh, that’s a clever design.

[00:34:13] Kris: Yeah. Or you’ll be going, gee, that was totally off the mark. Why? See how you elevate yourself? You become more strategic.

[00:34:20] Donna: Yeah.

[00:34:21] Kris: Your brain starts to analyze in a different way. Yeah. Once you start thinking like this.

[00:34:25] Donna: You will be the professional. Yeah, absolutely. So we’ll leave it there. Enjoy. We hope you’ve taken some nuggets away from today. We love this topic. Like Kris said, there’s lots of different little segues within this topic that we could talk about for hours and hours. We hope you’ve got something out of today and we look forward to talking with you again soon.

[00:34:44] Kris: Yes talk again soon. Bye.

[00:34:47] Donna: Bye.