March 21, 2024
Kris: Hello and welcome to Design and Prosper episode 129. This is an Ask Kris and Don episode where we answer a question from a designer who has a client who wants a cheaper design because they have provided a little sketch of what they want. Oh dear, we have experienced this one for sure. Let’s have a chat about it.
[Intro Music]
Don: Hey everybody.
Kris: Hello there. Hello. So beautiful. Claire, thank you so much for submitting a voice message. We’re going to play that for you now. It’s such a great question that we know so many designers would be experiencing. And yeah, let’s, let’s unpack this one because it’s a bit of a doozy. Yeah.
Claire: Hi, Kris and Donna. This is Claire in Montana. Long time listener, first time caller. I am a business owner of a graphic design and illustration studio called Cirque du Pique Creative. And my question revolves around a particular situation when a potential client reaches out to you for a logo design, and they want to keep things pretty budget conscious when they propose the idea of me designing a logo based off a sketch or idea that they provide. And so it’s not necessarily that I don’t want to work with these people, but I just want to know how to best approach this process so that I’m considerate of their sketch and their idea, but that also I can impress and still use my design process to create the logo design that they’re looking for. I would love to hear your thoughts. And I hope to hear from you guys soon. Thank you.
Kris: All right. Thank you, Claire. I gotta say, Claire, you have such a beautiful voice. You have a podcaster voice. You should be podcasting.
Don: Yes. You should be for sure.
Kris: We might have to have you on as a guest.
Don: Yes,
Kris: Reach out to us, Claire. If you want to be a guest, we could do like a, a coaching session as part of a podcast episode. Yeah. Alrighty.
This is a question we get a lot and it is quite similar to another question we answered recently. Check out episode 118, but it is different because that was a sort of completed design and they just wanted it to be made print ready, but this is a sketch, right?
And it’s at the beginning of the process. You know, the client has um, you know, They’re a budget conscious client and they’ve handed over, This is what I want! Can you whip it up for me?
Don: And we all know what I would say to that. Hell no!
Kris: We don’t whip.
Don: We just don’t whip. Absolutely not. And the high end designers response to this, every single time, would be, well thank you, but no. Or yeah, nah, if you’re in Australia quite simply because you would be completely compromising your process and it would be the client’s IP and you would be basically a finished artist and you would not be a designer creating a brand for a client. So now having said that. You know, that’s the hard and firm response for high end design where you say, no, that’s not a part of my process.
There are ways that you can meet the client where they are at, uh, with what, with what they’re wanting to work with. It will require some probably confident conversation. to be had with the client to be able to establish and educate them on your process and where you see them and their sketch fitting in that plan. So, we’ll unpack some ideas around this.
Kris: Yeah. Yeah. And I think that it totally depends on you as a designer as well. So some of you out there might be a little bit more open to this idea than, than others. So you might be like Donna, how Donna said, hell no. And Donna actually had this as one of, Her examples of things that she would never do as a designer that we, which was in a previous episode just a recent episode we did.
So check that out. There’s some about 20 examples of things we would never do as a designer. And I have done this before and I can tell you now it’s a red flag and we actually had it in a very old episode. It was a red flag episode. It’s a red flag of a problematic client, a potentially problematic client.
Don: A pain in the neck, I would imagine.
Kris: It could all be innocent. You might be dealing with a creative who just loves creativity and may have wanted to be a graphic designer in a different life, or they’ve just actually genuinely got amazing ideas and they want to collaborate. So this is, this is something that you need to decide. Are you gonna to be a collaborator with this client?
And are they going to have a say in this? The reason why it’s a red flag is because somebody who’s provided a sketch is likely going to want control, more control than just the handover.
Don: A hundred percent. They’re going to say, Hmm, no, that’s probably not quite what I had in mind.
Kris: It wasn’t my vision. Yeah. It’s gonna be micromanaged by the client.
Don: 100%. That’s the big red flag for me, is that they want complete control. And to me it also flags that there will be a trust issue. That you are capable of producing something different to the sketch that is going to be better than the sketch. They don’t believe that you are capable of doing that. Now like Kris said, I like how Kris said that could all be very innocent.
They could be creative and they want to collaborate. All right. Well, I would be having, again, a nice, confident, courageous conversation with them about ways they can collaborate without them needing control of the situation. So I think it’s about control for me. That’s another red flag.
There’s so many red flags bing, bing, bing, bing, bing. They just went off all over the place. And most importantly the compromising of your process. So in order to arrive at a sketch, the way that Kris and I work, and we work very, very similarly with the same systems approach to our creative, and it’s very immersive.
There’s so much research. There’s so much inspiration that’s been tapped into. There’s so much work that goes on before we sketch, then we sketch. And so that sketch is so informed. It’s so articulate to the creative and visual patterns that we have in our brain and then we sketch and we’ve got so much meaning behind it that for you then just to be handed a sketch, now it could be the best sketch in the world, it could be completely spot on, you know, all of those things, it could be a complete disaster as well, but if you’re just handed that sketch, that whole important first part of your process, which is your deepest dive, really, has been eliminated.
And so now you’ve got to bring all that meaning into this sketch. So, it’s a flat no, thank you very much, but no. And this is how I would work with you. But having said that, like I said before, let’s have some other strategies around this because if you want to work with a client that could be the loveliest person in the world, you could actually offer them a service where you say, look, I will do a visual audit on your sketch.
We will sit down and I’ll validate your sketch for you. This will require me to take a bit of a deep dive into my process and to really understand your brief. To really take a nice look at the objectives and to look at your sketch with an objective eye and make sure that that sketch is actually on track for being a brand that has legs, for being a brand that has longevity and that is appropriate for your business.
Now that service is going to cost you, you know, 450, 550, 600. And that’s a big chunk of the budget for an actual brand, but that might be something that they would like to invest in. They might go, yeah, actually, I really believe in this sketch. No one knows my business like me, another red flag and I really want you to do this.
So yes, please validate my sketch. allowing you to be the professional, allowing you to actually go through a part of your process, wouldn’t be all of it of course for that price, but would allow you to actually arrive at the decision that this sketch is actually worthy of pursuing.
Kris: Yeah, and it is an uneducated branding person who has offered the sketch and they don’t understand the design process and, and a really strategic Beautiful, successful brand and logo does not start with a sketch. Actually. There’s a lot more to it. There’s a lot of research and there’s understanding the the entire market. The messaging, taking that brief is so important. A designer wouldn’t start with a sketch. They start with analyzing the brief. So that needs to happen first. So even if you were to take the sketch on board and say, Oh, okay. Yeah, sure. Thank you. Thank you for your input. You could have that conversation that I need to go through my process, and this is it, and explain what the process is. And when I get to sketching time, I’ll take it on board. The solution is likely to be quite different. You could say it like that. Like, thank you, but no.
Don: yeah,
Kris: Thank you for your idea. So that could be another way that you could still work with them. But what this client, it sounds like they want to cut corners. They want to shave off some money off the price here. But it is a false economy to do that because you’re missing out on the crucial aspects, the foundational aspects of creating a logo and creating a brand.
Don: Yeah. So important to high end brand designers to have that part of the process. So the other thing to note is that when we take that brand strategy brief, we’re on the books by then. So this isn’t just the initial intake form or the discovery call brief where we scope out the work to be able to quote with accuracy.
The brief, the brand strategy brief. It’s a real deep dive where you share creative and intellectual property. So you need to be paid for, for that. So that’s why this service, if you want, they are wanting you to use that sketch. That’s that part of the service where you are validating their sketch needs to be paid for.
Kris: Yeah, you don’t want to just eyeball it and go, yes or no. You have to do a deep dive.
Don: you have to do the due diligence. And I think what that will do is that they will really respect you. And, and you can explain to them the difference between a brand designer and a finished artist and you could explain to them the value of a brand, which we talk about in multiple podcasts.
So yeah, make sure that you have that and that will be evident in your messaging and in the way that you articulate yourself with your client, but they need to understand that there’s so much value there as a high end brand designer that we cannot, in good conscience, simply whip up a logo based on someone else’s sketch. It just goes against all integrity.
Kris: It’s an education thing, isn’t it? It often comes down to client education. And for them to understand that if this brand of theirs is laid on a foundation, because they to cut It’s in the long term probably going to cost them money. Because they’re going to have to do it properly later. Or they’re going to have a diminished brand reputation. And it’s just really important that it’s done right.
Don: Yeah, absolutely. Now, the other thing is if you are out there thinking, well, it’s okay, I don’t mind, I can do this. That’s okay. What we would recommend is to make sure that you have a really nice contract. in place wherethe client is responsible for the sketch.
It is their intellectual and creative property, and you are simply an external supplier who is a finished artist and creating finished art. So make sure when you charge them and you put a proposal together, it’s really clear on your role in this.
So you are not. taking a deep dive. You are not a brand strategist. You are not developing the brand for them. You are quite simply an extension. Your arms and brain are an extension to the keyboard and the mouse and you are basically doing finished art for them in this instance. So that they know that you’re not going to tap into your brain for this for them.
You’re going to literally take the sketch and create it. I’d be really clear. I’d be really clear about deliverables.
Kris: That’s one way to do it. But like you said before Don, that’s not a high end brand designer approach. So, communication is really key with this and I’m not sure where you want this relationship to go. If you want it to be a long term approach, it’s probably not the best approach for it.
But if you’re thinking, oh, it’s just one and done, goodbye, you know, I’ll do it. All right. You know, it is up to you. Ultimately, these kinds of business decisions are up to you. And some designers listening would be like, You know, hell no, I’m not doing that. And some of you be like, yeah, okay, whatever I’ll do it.
You know, no skin off my nose if I do this little job but communication is key. You really need to clearly outline your role and also the number of revisions and how that’s all going to work. Because as I said before, red flag, this sounds like it’s going to have a lot of revisions and just, we don’t want that.
And I’ve got to say, I have been sucked in by this. More than once, where I have done a logo based on a sketch that a client has given. And I always thought, Oh, it’d be so easy and usually, you know, it’s been a friend or family member
Don: Always! That’s what I was about to say, because you feel a little bit compelled to help friends and family. And you go, Oh, all right, then.
Kris: And I remember this. I remember this has happened to me a couple of times. And I thought, yeah, this sketch could work. Like looking at it, I think it could work. But then I didn’t follow my process. It ended in disaster. Every time.
Don: I have to giggle, but I’m looking at Kris and she’s got the hands pointing.
Kris: Disaster meaning I spent hours and hours trying to make it work because initially I convinced myself I could just whip it up, I’d be fine, I can whip it up. But don’t be fooled by this. Don’t be fooled by this, because I fooled myself. I thought it would just be easy money and I could do it. I’ve just care too much about good design.
Don: There it is, right there. You care too much.
Kris: So if that resonates with you, take notice because you can absolutely bend yourself into a pretzel trying to make it work and guess whose bottom line is going to be affected. Yours. As well as your clients because the result’s not going to be as good, but you are going to spend too much time on this to make it work.
Don: If it’s friends and family, also, what’s building at that same time is resentment, and you don’t want any resentment either.
So, there are a couple of strategies there, Claire. The first, the no thank you. I can’t do that for you, but what I can do, I love that line. No, I’m sorry, I can’t do that for you, but what I can do is, and then outline your services. And why I can’t do that is because of this. Very detailed, very specific process that I have resulting in and then speak about the transformation and the value and have that conversation with them so that they’re really aware that you’re not just going, I don’t want to do it, it’s actually because it would be compromising the integrity of your process.
And so have that conversation or We gave you the option of, yes, I’ll do it, but under these terms, so you are always in control, making sure that you are very clear about what you were going to be doing and how many iterations and things like that are going to be happening so that they know, okay, this is not a brand that you are delivering to me.
This is basically artwork. So have a think about it. And again, I really love what Kris said before about it being so individual to each business really does have to, you have to sit with it and make sure it’s a part of your plan. Is it a part of your business plan to do work like
Kris: Yeah, it’s perfectly fine to decline this kind of collaboration. And just addressing the budget because you did say, I might want to work with this client. I like these, I like these people, but they just happened to have given me a sketch. So you might need to address the budget thing and what you could do. So if it is a, yes, I want to work with a client, but I don’t want to deal with their sketch.
So just have a talk with them about your process and how it doesn’t involve starting with a sketch. Right? And suggest that there are other ways that you can meet their budget without compromising the solution. And we actually talk about this in another episode 61. What to do when clients can’t afford you. Have a listen to that. Because it could be that you’re offering a basic kind of package for them to get started, but it might not need to involve that sketch at all.
Don: Yeah, absolutely.
Kris: It’s tricky because you don’t want to offend them and say your sketch sucks. And the best way around that is to say, look, I won’t know until I do a deep dive.
Don: you won’t know if the sketch sucks until you actually do that due diligence. And the thing is, the sketch could be brilliant, but you can’t rely on sketch alone until you’ve done the work prior for a really solid brand.
So that’s the education that I would be. Really making sure that they understood. So that they’re not being offended at all. That, you know, and you can, you can actually say that. Like, I’m, I’m sure this sketch is fabulous, but let’s validate it. And I can do that via this very comprehensive and professional process that I need to take in order to arrive at whether or not that sketch is on track for you.
They will respect you instantly. You will be, in their eyes, the authority instantly. So, yeah. Be brave. It’s a brave conversation to have, but wherever you sit on this, just know what your belief system is around this, honor your systems, honor your processes, and just make sure that you don’t get swayed, you know, by other people wanting to imprint their business ways and their business processes on you.
Like you are in control. It’s your business, your way. We say that a lot and we want you to believe it.
Kris: Yep.
Don: All right. Be brave, Claire, and let us know how you
Kris: Yeah. And also anybody else who’s experienced this, reach out and let us know. We love hearing your stories.
Don:Yeah, love it. All right. Bye!
Kris: Bye!
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