So who’s in charge anyway? You? Or, your clients?

If you are consistently putting your client’s needs before your own, bending and swaying to their whims and demands, chances are, your graphic design business (and your life) might not be so great.

This feeling of lack of control and of not being in charge can be demoralising and can affect your self-esteem as a business owner.

As an employee, you might have one terrible boss or manager, but when client behaviour feels out of control, it can feel as though you have a whole handful of bad bosses at once, which makes you feel like your business is the worst job in the world.

It might be that your ‘people pleasing’ habit might be making your business and life so much harder than it needs to be.

This might be a generalisation but we’ve noticed that many graphic designers have people-pleasing tendencies, especially when compared to other industries that offer business-to-business services.

Is it because as creative beings, designers are highly sensitive? And with this sensitivity comes empathy and wanting to be liked and a desire to do the right thing by clients.

We know that designers are the very best people, and we want to help as many designers as possible to bust free of people-pleasing behaviour to set firm, kind and reasonable boundaries that benefit not only yourself but your clients as well.

How people pleasing might be showing up in your design business: 

• Client’s ask for ridiculous changes that are off-brief or off-brand, and you say yes
• Client saying ‘no I don’t like it’ and you don’t question it, even though your professional opinion is otherwise
• Client’s ghost you and you don’t touch base because you don’t want to appear annoying
• You work long hours on last minute requests because you keep saying yes without questioning the deadline
• You’re afraid to send a quote with higher prices (what if they don’t like me? What if they can’t afford it?)
• You check your bank account and client STILL hasn’t paid invoice but you don’t follow up because you don’t want to offend, or you’re worried about their finances
• A client still hasn’t paid your invoice and asks you to do more work—and you DO IT.

When you say ‘yes’ at the expense of your wellbeing, resentment can set in and the business you built may be hardly recognisable.

The long term practice of bending and swaying to suit our client’s needs—rather than setting clear and beautiful boundaries that support your process—will have you eventually feeling as though you are betraying yourself.

Is the client always right?

Absolutely not! Is anyone ever ALWAYS right?

This old adage that the ‘customer is always right’ is something you may have heard on repeat as the #1 rule of customer service, but we believe this idea is archaic.

Yes, we want our clients to be super happy and satisfied, but they are not always right.

We need to treat our client’s opinions and ideas with respect and curiosity, but their demands aren’t always correct or necessary.

Often our clients are trying things on—they don’t fully expect you to bend and sway.

Your clients may be new to the world of professional design processes and don’t always know that they are being unreasonable. They may innocently ask for something that is borderline unreasonable (it’s human nature).

Also, you may stumble across clients who will try to get away with as much they can. And when you accommodate without question—they’ll take it. Here’s another old adage: ‘give an inch and they’ll take a mile’—all the parents will know this one. 😜

Just as good parenting requires setting boundaries kindly and firmly, the same principle applies to setting boundaries with clients.

Setting expectations are key. If a client asks for an unreasonable request once and gets that request fulfilled without question, they will come to expect agreeable compliance for all of their future requests.

We find that simply questioning a client’s unusual or unnecessary requests usually means that you can negotiate and arrive at a solution that is a win-win.

Hands up—we’ve said yes to projects and unreasonable requests even when our intuition was saying a full-body NO. It can be very difficult to trust yourself when you need money and the work is coming through in ebbs and flows.

This kind of bending and swaying is a direct result of fear.

This is how ‘people pleasing’ has looked for us—before we worked out how to set boundareies and get a consistent flow of client work:

• We said yes to clients with huge red flags and warning signs all over the place
• If a client had control of the project from the very beginning, the boundaries would get looser and more liberties would be taken as the project went on—we kept bending over
• Some projects turned into nightmares that hurt so badly we wanted to quit our design business because it was all too hard
• We ignored our intuition when our money fears were bigger

From our experience, fear-based decisions rarely have good endings. People-pleasing is rooted in fear—the fear of not being liked, not being accepted and the fear of your business failing.

This is a li’l reminder that this is YOUR business. You are not an employee. Take back control and do not let clients run your business.

Beautiful boundaries can be established with respect and integrity, especially if they are grounded in the goals and values you have established for your business.

We suspect you’ll find that by saying ‘No’ more often, you’ll be in higher demand and command higher respect.

Here’s to your thriving, sustainable design business.

Much love
Kris & Donna xx

Podcast #38 Transcription

Kris: [00:00:00] We’re doing something different today.

Donna: [00:00:02] We are! So exciting. Really nice to see your beautiful face, Kris. 

Kris: [00:00:09] We’re on video. Yeah. We’re on video. It’s a little bit different for us, so we’ll see how we go, but it should be good. Yeah. Good. Just trying something new. So if you want to go and check us out on, um, we don’t actually have a YouTube channel yet, but hopefully by the time this is published, we might,

Donna: [00:00:26] Yeah. 

Kris: [00:00:26] If we do have one it’ll be in our show notes. 

Donna: [00:00:30] Yeah. 

We want to have a YouTube channel. Today. So there you go. That’s why we’re doing this. 

Kris: [00:00:38] We’re also going to post snippets of video over on our instagram account.

Donna: [00:00:43] Yes. 

Kris: [00:00:44] You know, we’re doing that thing where you repurpose all your content. So we thought we’d try this video thing and have a bit of fun with it.

And also Donna  and I communicate so much better when we can see each other as well. So it’s just always been a bit weird. Being tucked away.  

So today we are talking about who is in charge of your business. So is it you, or is it your clients who is really in charge?

Who is the person that is pulling the strings. So we want to talk about that because often what can happen is a client can come in and their needs can supersede the way you do business, if you let it. So what we want to do is make sure that that doesn’t happen. So we want to talk about that today. We want to talk about how that can make a really negative impact on your business when it’s not you calling the shots.

Yeah. I think that. Oftentimes it’s the client problems. It’s the clients taking control of things that causes the most amount of distress and upset and just overwhelm in a design business.

Donna: [00:01:46] That dissatisfaction that you feel really comes from being pulled from pillar to post and not being in control and not being the person to go, ah, this is what’s happening with my business and this is how it’s happening and this is what I’m doing and knowing, each step as it goes, rather than being thrown a curve ball here and thrown a curve ball there it’s, you don’t know what’s going to happen next when that’s happening to you. And that’s really, really stressful in, in business. 

Kris: [00:02:14] Yeah. And then resentment sets in because you’re just feeling like you’re being tussled this way and that way.

And then you don’t want to be in business anymore. Right? You know, you’re like, what am I doing? I might as well just go get a job. 

Donna: [00:02:26] Yeah. That’s exactly what happened. 

Kris: [00:02:27] This is not what I signed up for. This is not what I thought it was going to be like. And Donna and I have talked about this on a few different podcasts, but we’re wondering if the reason why this is a very common problem in our particular industry in the design world. Is it because designers are people people-pleasers. And we know it’s a bit of a generalization, but it’s something we’ve noticed. It’s a common thread that we’ve noticed. 

Donna: [00:02:55] Yeah. It’s because creativity and sensitivity go hand in hand and we think that that’s something that could be happening in the design industry, you’ve got these gorgeous creative souls who are really sensitive and then therefore want to please, want to make sure people like them, want to make sure that their work is liked and loved. And so what we end up doing is bending over backwards and doing all these people pleasing business when really. They’re going to love our creativity anyway, and they’re going to want it and they’re going to wait for it.

And they’re going to, you know, be accepting of your work in your way, as long as you set those boundaries, as long as you draw that line in the sand. Hmm. 

Kris: [00:03:35] Yeah. Because that sensitivity really borderlines into empathy and just really wanting to do the right thing and not upset anybody and to be liked, to be loved all those things.

So. What we want to talk about is when you’re people pleasing, how it actually becomes a problem in your business and it actually makes your business and your life so much harder than it needs to be. 

Donna: [00:04:00] Yeah.  Those words that you just said, there are the key, then it has to be like, you are in control of that. So it doesn’t have to be that hard. So if you can just, we’ve got some ideas that we’ll share with you to take control and, and reign it in. Kris one funny, funny thing I’m just noticing about being on this platform and videoing is I speak with my hands. Everybody knows me, knows that. So there’s a lot of that going on and now people can see it.

So anyway. Yeah, well too. I am, I can’t stop it. It’d be like, you’d have to tie my hands down. 

I’m a hair twirler. So when 

Kris: [00:04:36] I get lost in thought yeah. I’ll be twirling away. Twirly, twirly, twirly . So that might happen on video as well, but that’s okay. That’s what I’m getting into my zone when I’m, when I’m getting my hair twirl on so….

Donna: [00:04:48] That’s right. Absolutely. I think that will be illustrating lots of points with hands like this. 

Kris: [00:04:54] I think people who are  driving behind me in a car, often thinking, oh my goodness, that that person is just off in lala land, they are not focused on their driving. Because they’re twirling, but that is my focus. I twirl and I focus.

So yeah. A lot of you out there can relate to that. 

Donna: [00:05:10] Yeah, yeah, so what happens to our beautiful business? When we people please, Kris, let’s talk about that. 

Kris: [00:05:15] Yes. So lots of things can happen when we people please it’s like, oh, where do we begin? Clients will ask for ridiculous changes and you say, yes. 

Donna: [00:05:26] Yeah.

Kris: [00:05:26] You say yes. You’re basically saying yes to all the things that you should be saying no to, like the client might say no, they don’t like it. And you don’t even question it. You don’t even, yeah. 

Donna: [00:05:35] You just accept it. Ok, that’s fine. Yep. 

Kris: [00:05:38] You don’t even refer back to the brief or you don’t even set a limit or set a boundary. You’re just like, yes, yes. Okay. I’m just going to roll over. I’m just going to bend over backwards. To say yes to you. Yeah, because you don’t like conflict.

Donna: [00:05:50] Don’t like conflict and scared that they won’t like it scared they’ll walk away. That fear is underlying a lot of the reason why we just accept what clients say. We’re scared we’ll lose the client is the underlying

fear that if I don’t please you in every single way, you want to be pleased, you’re going to walk and that scares the heck out of us. And so we just like, oh no, we don’t want to upset you, we don’t want to cause any waves. So if you don’t like it. Okay. Well, all right, we’ll change it. So what we’re seeing here is all these ways that build resentment and build it, build it, build it because when the client is in control and you’re not in control of your business, you, you really do suffer. Your soul will suffer. So we want to try and avoid that. 

Kris: [00:06:31] This whole thing before we just get into some that some of the other ways that can show up in your business is it makes sense that we are people pleasers just generally as humans, because as we’ve evolved, we had to be a part of a tribe and a community. And if we didn’t, we wouldn’t survive. So your very life is on the line. If you’re not sort of towing the line and doing what you’re supposed to do, and in business, it can feel like that threat. It can feel like my life is going to be in danger because I’m not going to get enough money in the door or whatever situation it feels like for you.

So it’s, it’s a really valid feeling. And I think that combined with that sensitivity of designers, it just gets bigger and amplifies in design businesses compared to other service-based industries. We’ve noticed, like, I don’t think it happens as much as you know, in accounting. or solicitors but why is that?

Why is it happening more in design studios? And we can only think of it back to the creativity and the sensitivities, so…

Donna: [00:07:30] Yeah. So other ways that it shows up, it could be that a client ghosts you and you don’t touch base with them because you don’t want to become annoying or you think you, you know, you don’t want to be that squeaky wheel, so you just let them go.

Kris: [00:07:43] Yeah. That annoying thing you don’t want to upset anybody annoying anybody.  

Donna: [00:07:47] Don’t want to come across as being needy and annoying. Let them go. Yeah. Yeah. 

Kris: [00:07:52] Ah, working last minute, doing ridiculous hours over the weekend or in your spare time, because somebody has. Said they need something urgently and desperately, and you do it at the expense of your wellbeing and your life. Mmmm.

Donna: [00:08:09] Which is so important that we keep balance in our business lives in order to have beautiful, mental health, beautiful physical health, and nurture for ourselves. If we don’t really pay attention to these boundaries that we’re talking about now, and we’ve got some ideas around how to do that, it really can come crumbling down.

Kris: [00:08:29] What about being afraid to send a quote? Because, you know,  there could be a couple of reasons why you were afraid to send a quote, but it’s like, um, you might have high prices. You might have decided your business model isn’t sustainable. I need to raise my prices. What if they don’t like me what if they can’t afford it it and there’s that empathy again as well, people pleasing and empathy

coincide a little bit. Yeah. You know, it’s, it’s like the dark side of empathy. 

Donna: [00:08:54] Yeah. And what happens as well is that we, in this case, we often make assumptions on what we think people can or can’t afford and we’ll go, oh, you know, that’s going to be really expensive for them. And the reality is we can’t make an assumption about what they can afford. We can’t make an assumption about their budgets. We, we need to just be true to our business model, true to our numbers. What we know the value of that work is, and then present that. And if they want it they will find the money, they will make sure that they can afford it. So don’t let that empathy take over so much so that you’re actually even second guessing what you think they may or may not be able to afford. So,  be mindful of that little, um, glitch that can happen when we’re pricing things. We assume people don’t have the money to spend on it, or they’ll think it’s crazy expensive when they may not have any preconceived ideas at all, and it might be perfectly priced. You’ve just got to be true to your costings. Yeah. 

Kris: [00:09:56] Yeah. I think we make us assumptions a lot. And another one, um, to do with money is if an invoice, hasn’t been paid by a client and the people pleasing nature in you won’t allow you to follow up on the overdue invoice. And so it’s like, you’re making an assumption, first of all, that they don’t want to pay it, or you’re going to be annoying, but they might’ve just accidentally missed it. It might be just really innocent. And so you need to follow up. We did a podcast on courage and what that looks like in a, in a graphic design business a couple of episodes ago.

So check that out, but we’re going to do another one on the flip side of courage, which is fear and how that can show up in a design business as well, because we feel that there’s more to go into with this. 

Donna: [00:10:43] There’s so much. 

Kris: [00:10:44] Yes. I think that, um, The money fears, a big part of it all and the people pleasing that comes with that.

Donna: [00:10:52] So, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. And sometimes,  with the invoices not being paid,  it’s easier for us to present ourselves as, as the accountant. So we highly recommend a separate email address that’s not you. So there’s ways. And I think we talk about that in that podcast, don’t we Kris, about having courage. Ways of showing up in your business for areas that you do find it tricky, for example, chasing money, chasing money is hard.

Nobody likes doing it. So if you can have a little bit of anonymity around chasing that money, just one step removed. So it’s accounts at your design business name, email address, then you can say, hi, blah, blah, blah. Looking at your accounts. Your account is overdue by X days, any trouble, let me know, blah, blah, blah, you know, Helen Head of accounts or whatever, or just accounts at your business name.

Yeah. You can just remove yourself that little bit. Makes it so much easier. So there’s a little pro tip for you just to combat that particular one, because chasing money is really, really hard and does require a huge amount of courage. 

Kris: [00:11:59] It does. Yeah, Another money one is, and I think we’ve all fallen into this trap. Um, a desperate client will get in touch with you for some more work and they have overdue invoices and we want to people please, we want to do the right thing. We want to get them over the line, but they’re not doing the right thing by you.

Hmm. You know… And that’s, that’s a really tough one. It’s an ongoing client and they’ve got money outstanding and it takes a lot of courage, but the people pleasing nature of you, you may be wanting to just say, okay, I’ll do it. I’ll do that as well. And still haven’t been paid but I’ll keep on doing that. You won’t even mention it, won’t mention the outstanding invoice because you wanna be nice.

Donna: [00:12:38] That’s right.  You want to be nice, that’s it. But we really, we really need to draw a line in the sand when it comes to that, because we’ll just keep going and going. And the commonality in all of this, is that people pleasing in all of these scenarios, breeds resentment, and we just don’t want to be resentful of our business or feel like we’re betraying ourselves because that’s when we’re saying yes, yes, yes to a client, we’re ultimately saying no, no, no to ourselves, especially for things that we are feeling really uncomfortable with, but doing them anyway. So we want to flip that around and have that momentary little bit of awkwardness where we say I’d love to do that work for you. And will do, as soon as you pay  your outstanding bills and 50% of this invoice and it’s as simple as that. Might feel icky, might feel hard, but we want to flip that around because that little bit of momentary awkwardness is way, way worth it, then just being resentful and betraying yourself. 

Kris: [00:13:45] Yeah. And it can be done so professionally and politely. It doesn’t have to be done in a mean scary way. It just can be done really beautifully. So, yeah, it’s, it’s like we’ve always been taught. I think I’ve heard it ever since I was little, um, the client is always right. And I think a lot of us feel that that’s the case because you’ve got to have happy clients, happy clients equals happy referrals and happy repeat business and all the rest of those good things, but not at the expense of constantly betraying yourself and not saying yes to yourself, because you can do it for a while.

You can do it for even a couple of years. You can keep on bending over and betraying yourself, but eventually. You won’t be able to do that anymore. 

Donna: [00:14:34] Yeah, absolutely, you won’t. No, no. Yeah. I think the thing is nobody can be consistently right. Not your client, not you, not anybody can be right 100% of the time. So saying the client is always right, we just call BS on that because yeah, it can’t be it’s rubbish. They can’t be. And nor can you, okay, so it’s a two-way street. So when we’re in this beautiful business of collaboration and that’s what designers are, when we have clients we’re collaborating with them, there has to be this element of give and take.

There has to be this element of, of listening to each other and really holding on to what the strengths are of each other and really trusting that. And then, and allowing that to that, to come to the surface and what happens a lot of the time it gets eroded with designers when clients, when we’re putting them on that pedestal of always being right, that that trust gets eroded.

And, and it’s really important that you feel trusted and worthy as a designer. And that’s going to disappear if you’re always, always saying yes, yes, yes to all clients. So just be very, very mindful of that. It’s a dangerous spiral, to get into. 

Kris: [00:15:46] Yeah. And of course we want our clients to be super happy and we want them to feel satisfied and respected.

And we want to treat our client’s opinions with respect. We want to want to hear here with an open mind and an open heart and be curious about what they have to say, but their demands aren’t always correct or necessary. Sometimes deadlines, for example, I just plucked right out of the air. There’s no actual basis. 

Donna: [00:16:11] They’re winging it. They’re just winging it. They’re people who are trying to get through their day and they’re like, okay, I’ve got to give a deadline to the client. Okay. What will it be? I’ll just, that’ll do, um, I’ll make that the deadline and they think they’re doing the right thing and they potentially,  I’m getting passionate Kris now. Um, they, they don’t realize that they’re, plucked out of the air deadline’s really impactful on, this beautiful designer. And they’re just trying it on, they’re just going, okay, well, let’s see if that works. And then when the designer actually says, well, no, that actually won’t work. Have you considered this date or that date? And start to open up, a communication and negotiation where you can tease out some other options. They go, oh yes, no problem. I can do it then. And it’s, it’s really surprising if you actually go into those negotiations with the idea that this might have been just a ballpark idea for the client.

It might’ve just been an interim date. Then, then there is wriggle room. There is room for negotiation. That’s really gorgeous, you know, and you can go, okay, well, let’s make this work for your business because I want to meet your objectives and let’s make it work for my business because I want to work optimally for you.

That’s the key. So don’t be afraid because the clients often are just trying it on. Um, I’m sorry, Kris, I’m on a little bandstand, but one of the things that happens is the minute you give an inch to them, if you’re always saying yes, it’s like any expectation, you know, you go to a coffee shop, you have a coffee and it’s awesome.

You go back the next day and you have that same cup of coffee and it’s not the same. It’s like the expectation hasn’t been met. So, it’s same  with this. If your client is used to you saying yes, of course, yes. I can make that deadline. Yes. I’ll make that change. And then all of a sudden you get your courage and you say, no, it’s like, What? Why is my expectation not being met?

So just be mindful the minute you cave to something that in your heart, your intuition, screaming that you shouldn’t be caving on, just be mindful, the client might  expect that again in the future. So be mindful, don’t set up those very wobbly foundations with the client from the very first instance.

Kris: [00:18:25] Yeah. You need to be 

Donna: [00:18:26] Stepping the boundary down off the pedestal. 

Kris: [00:18:31] No, a hundred percent agree with the whole thing. Yeah. I think that, um once a client knows they can get away with something. Definitely they’ll just try a little bit extra and it’s just human nature. I think they just see what I can get away with.

And they’re not trying to be mean. They’re not trying to be selfish. They’re not trying to take advantage. It’s just  they’ll get used to you being a certain way. So it is important from the get go. As you said, you set up those parameters, set up those boundaries and it’s going to be much more smooth sailing if you do so from the beginning.

But yeah, just asking the question, because sometimes we think it’s absolute, but it’s not, it’s not absolute at all. And they go, oh no, of course, of course. Tuesday is fine. Tuesday’s fine. 

Donna: [00:19:20] And it’s just a simple question and they might say, no, I need it at that time, but at least you’re checking in, you’re double checking that it really is a real deadline.

Kris: [00:19:32] Yeah. We’ve said yes to things definitely in business before. Can I speak to you as well Don? We’ve said yes to things that we should not have said yes to many times, and it is 

a practice and it’s a learning. And we did it a lot more often back in the early days of our business.

In our first graphic design businesses that we had and often it was saying yes, because of money fear, and I know money fear is real for a lot of people. And honestly, Donna and I have both been in a position of privilege if it all went belly up for me, I could go and live 

in my parent’s spare bedroom.

You know, like I have that option,  if it got to that point, I’m protected  in some ways. And I also live in a country where you’re supported if things go belly up.  But there is a lot of money fear, and we make a lot of decisions and especially our people pleasing decisions around that money fear.

Especially when the money isn’t coming in consistently, what can happen is, you  get that feast and famine thing and, the way that it looked would be like, you know, you’re saying yes to a job with huge red flags. Even though you don’t really want to take the job, but you’re taking it on because you need the money.

 You don’t trust your instincts. 

Donna: [00:20:43] That’s key. 

Kris: [00:20:43] Because you think you’re not trusting that there’ll be other opportunities that another door will open because you’re shutting this one. And then, because the client has control from the very beginning, it’s just boundaries keep getting looser, more liberties get taken, you know, you’re feeling like you’re losing your freedom.

You keep bending over. And like, it turns into a nightmare project. And then you end up wanting to quit your business because you think this is not what I want. This is too hard. 

Donna: [00:21:09] Too hard. Because the clients have just become your boss and we’ve had potentially, maybe a really bad boss, and that’s why we’re in our own business now.

And now we’ve got 10 clients, we’ve got 10 bad bosses and it’s like, you know, because we’re letting these bosses go rogue and run the business their way to, to match their businesses. So when you think about it, you’ve got all of these clients and they’ve all got their own business models and you’ve got your business model.

And if you’re trying to run your business to meet that client’s business model and that client’s business model and timing, and that clients, it’s going to crumble, but if you stay strong and in your lane and how you run your business, then your client comes in. They come into your system. The next client comes in, they come into your system and we’ve got all this lovely balance happening and control.

You’re in control of, of how this is all working, which is essential for success, but not only success financially, which is what we’re talking about now,. It’s essential for success for mental health. It’s success of physical health of that beautiful balance in life. If we’re not being really clear about this is my business and I’m running it my way.

Then we really fall prey to the multitude of businesses that we work for. And we can’t have 10 bosses all pulling us in different directions. It’s not sustainable.

Kris: [00:22:29] So these 10 bosses are essentially running your business. 

Donna: [00:22:33] Yeah, 

Kris: [00:22:33] And that is, that’s not on. 

Donna: [00:22:35] Dangerous. 

Kris: [00:22:36] It’s yeah, this is your business. You are not an employee.

You are the CEO, maybe if you’re a company structure, but you’re the boss. And having all these people taking control is not going to be sustainable. So it’s about taking back control. I love, um, Rachel Rogers says no is a complete sentence. I love that.

It’s a complete sentence. 

Donna: [00:23:04] Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I taught that a little bit too soon to my daughters.

yeah, that’s right. So yeah, we don’t want that. We don’t want our clients running our business. Be brave. Be courageous and take control. 

Kris: [00:23:23] Use that word. No, how about this? Or even just questioning things you know, why is the invoice late? Let me know when I can expect payment, you know, it’s not even about saying no, it’s about inviting conversation in, so there’s lots of different ways.

Donna: [00:23:39] Exactly that’s right. 

Kris: [00:23:40] Yeah. Love it. Love inviting conversation. Because, remember, we were saying earlier that our relationship with our clients is a collaboration and a collaboration requires communication. And that communication is rich and powerful when you access it. So shutting down the communication channels is one of the things we do when we are people pleasing, because we’re too scared to open up these conversations.

So we really encourage you to ask questions, encourage conversation, just be curious. And, you know, boundaries can be set with enormous integrity and kindness. We’re all about a beautiful kind way of running our businesses. So kind, but with oodles of integrity and very clear boundaries is a really sustainable way of running your beautiful design business, your way. Meeting your values and your mission. Yeah. 

Yeah, absolutely. If you do not reign in the people pleasing. It will, it will be the undoing of your business. It sounds very full on and quite dramatic, but it’s absolutely something that you have to address if you feel it’s a problem for you. 

Donna: [00:24:55] Yeah. 

Kris: [00:24:55] Because your business, the numbers won’t work. Everything will fall apart. If you are running your business as a people pleaser. 

Donna: [00:25:03] Yep.

Kris: [00:25:04] It’s time to stop.

Donna: [00:25:05] Time to stop, that’s it. Well, we hope that some given some of you some courage out there to just really take control of the business and, and do your business your way, which is one of our favorite mantras that Kris and I say often and alot.

Which is the same thing. Um, so have a wonderful, yeah. We don’t say wonderful day or week, do we? Because we don’t know how long this is the first time for us. So we don’t know when you’ll see us again in this platform. So till next time… 

Kris: [00:25:38] It might be one and done

Donna: [00:25:39] One and done! Might not be, so let’s be optimistic.

Kris: [00:25:44] We like this idea. I really enjoyed this actually. because I can see you Donna.. We should have had Zoom on before when we were doing our recordings because it’s just so much easier when we can see each other. 

Donna: [00:25:55] Because normally what I do is I look out the window and I get passionate with the window. The window doesn’t give me anything. 

Kris: [00:26:02] It didn’t give you any feedback. 

Donna: [00:26:06] It doesn’t give me any feedback, I can’t see. Yeah, that’s right. 

Kris: [00:26:07] Yeah. We’re zoom experts, because we’re always on zoom and we, we deliver the academy via zoom as well.  This marks the week 12 of The Academy, which is now final week of delivery for this round.

And, you should go and sign up to the wait list. We’ll put the link in the show notes because it has been the most amazing experience and we have loved it and we’ve seen the transformations that are occurring and we address all this sort of stuff in The Academy too. We’ve got scripts galore, we’ve got resources, we’ve got boundary setting systems.

We have so many things in The Academy. It is jam packed. 

Donna: [00:26:45] Lots and lots of tools to help you. Yeah. As well as access to us on the weekly, which is kind of cool and access to an amazing like-minded community via our Facebook community. So it’s just so exciting to be a part of and can’t believe we’re at week 12, Kris.

Yes, my goodness. Right. It’s just insane. 

Kris: [00:27:04] So you might be on our regular mailing list, but it’s really important to get on The Academy waitlist mailing list as well, because we’re going to send a very special something to the wait-listers. 

Donna: [00:27:16] We start on the 21st of September. Yeah.

Kris: [00:27:19] Okay. Have a beautiful day, everybody. Bye.